WRDA - Revision history

Jan: update

2026-05-09T11:45:21Z

update

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:45, 9 May 2026
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	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==
	See ~~blogpost (nov.16)~~ [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html ~~fryskednis/2016/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford~~.~~html~~]		See [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html blogpost nov. 16].

	On the translation forum ([https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno oeralinda.boards/useful-cases-minno]), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: "born at the Linda-shores"		On the old translation forum ([https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno oeralinda.boards/useful-cases-minno]), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: ''born at the Linda-shores.''

	and added this note: [029/15] "<span class="fryas">WRDA</span> (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for "coast, shore" were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for "land bordering water" ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432 etymonline/shore])"		and added this note: [029/15] <blockquote><span class="fryas">WRDA</span> (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for ''coast, shore'' were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for ''land bordering water'' ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432 etymonline/shore])</blockquote>Proofreader commented (1) on translation:<blockquote>Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation.</blockquote>And (2) on the note: <blockquote>A “coast” or “coastline” evokes the sight from sea of land stretching out in whatever directions. A “shore” evokes a limited section of coastline, and includes the movement of the tide, perpendicular to the coastline, and usually from the point of view of the land. Both are really only applicable to waters the size of oceans or seas, although “shores” could be used for large rivers, along with “banks” or “beaches” depending on their shape. Any area that is largely influenced by maritime professions might be considered a “seaside” (town, area, house), and as it is the most comprehensive choice, I think it may be closest to the meaning of <span class="fryas">WRDA</span>, but in the case above, “-shores” is very much in keeping with how people currently denominate a dwelling-place near a promient water feature.</blockquote>My reply to (1):<blockquote>It is not clear where exactly it was. The original word Lindawrda would be awkward to pronounce (in the mind) of many readers. I have considered Lindawards, but that might be confusing too. Elsewhere in the texts, Linda-woods is used. I guess it will have to be explained in introduction or good foot-note.</blockquote>For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for regions after all, without explaining it in a note.

	Proofreader commented (1) on translation: "Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation."		<u>Bruce:</u> When reading <span class="fryas">GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA</span>, I think of the English word ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections. Also hospital ward. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read <span class="fryas">BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA</span>, I actually (mistakenly) saw <span class="fryas">WRDA</span> as part of the predicate <span class="fryas">BÀRN ... WRDA</span>. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix ''worth'' meaning ''area (near a river)'', I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for Chelsworth, which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as ''Cerleswrda''.

	And (2) on the note: "A “coast” or “coastline” evokes the sight from sea of land stretching out in whatever directions. A “shore” evokes a limited section of coastline, and includes the movement of the tide, perpendicular to the coastline, and usually from the point of view of the land. Both are really only applicable to waters the size of oceans or seas, although “shores” could be used for large rivers, along with “banks” or “beaches” depending on their shape. Any area that is largely influenced by maritime professions might be considered a “seaside” (town, area, house), and as it is the most comprehensive choice, I think it may be closest to the meaning of <span class="fryas">WRDA</span>, but in the case above, “-shores” is very much in keeping with how people currently denominate a dwelling-place near a promient water feature."

	My reply to (1): "It is not clear where exactly it was. The original word Lindawrda would be awkward to pronounce (in the mind) of many readers. I have considered Lindawards, but that might be confusing too. Elsewhere in the texts, Linda-woods is used. I guess it will have to be explained in introduction or good foot-note."

	~~For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for regions after all, without explaining it in a note.~~

	<u>Bruce:</u> When reading <span class="fryas">GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA</span>, I think of the English word ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections. Also hospital ward. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read <span class="fryas">BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA</span>, I actually (mistakenly) saw <span class="fryas">WRDA</span> as part of the predicate <span class="fryas">BÀRN ... WRDA</span>. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for Chelsworth, which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". ~~:-)~~

	<u>Jan:</u> Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.		<u>Jan:</u> Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.

Jan at 19:15, 23 August 2024

2024-08-23T19:15:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:15, 23 August 2024
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	== Fragments ==		== Fragments ==
	(with translations August '22, discussion below):		(with translations August 22, discussion below):

	[<nowiki/>[[005]]/10] ''reeve of ... the ~~'''~~Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)~~'''''~~.		[<nowiki/>[[005]]/10] reeve of ... the Linda regions (<span class="fryas">LINDA.WRDA</span>).

	[<nowiki/>[[029]]/15] ''born at the ~~'''~~Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)~~'''''~~		[<nowiki/>[[029]]/15] born at the Linda regions (<span class="fryas">LINDA.WRDA</span>)

	[<nowiki/>[[066]]/20] ''defenders of the land came ~~'''~~from all over (UT ALLE WRDA WÉI)~~'''''~~.		[<nowiki/>[[066]]/20] defenders of the land came from all over (<span class="fryas">UT ALLE WRDA WÉI</span>).

	[<nowiki/>[[087]]/20] ''reeve over the ~~'''~~Linda regions (LINDA WRDA)~~'''''~~.		[<nowiki/>[[087]]/20] reeve over the Linda regions (<span class="fryas">LINDA WRDA</span>).

	[<nowiki/>[[093]]/25] ''obscuring ~~'''~~our region (VSA WRDA)~~'''''~~.		[<nowiki/>[[093]]/25] obscuring our region (<span class="fryas">VSA WRDA</span>).

	[<nowiki/>[[116]]/05] ''The woods of the ~~'''~~Linda regions (LINDA WRDA)~~'''''~~		[<nowiki/>[[116]]/05] The woods of the Linda regions (<span class="fryas">LINDA WRDA</span>)

	[<nowiki/>[[140]]/20] ''in all ~~'''~~regions (WRDA)~~'''~~ people will rise''		[<nowiki/>[[140]]/20] in all regions (<span class="fryas">WRDA</span>) people will rise

	[<nowiki/>[[143]]/10] ''My father wrote how the ~~'''~~Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)~~'''~~ and the Liudgardens were destroyed. Lindaheim is still lost, the ~~'''~~Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)~~'''~~ partially.''		[<nowiki/>[[143]]/10] My father wrote how the Linda regions (<span class="fryas">LINDA.WRDA</span>) and the Liudgardens were destroyed. Lindaheim is still lost, the Linda regions (<span class="fryas">LINDA.WRDA</span>) partially.

	[<nowiki/>[[143]]/20] ''Therefore, this surrounding yard is now called ~~'''~~Liudwerd (LJUD.WÉRD)~~'''~~. The steersmen say ~~'''~~‘Liuwrd’ (LJV.WRD)~~'''~~, but that is mispronounced.''		[<nowiki/>[[143]]/20] Therefore, this surrounding yard is now called Liudwerd (<span class="fryas">LJUD.WÉRD</span>). The steersmen say ‘Liuwrd’ (<span class="fryas">LJV.WRD</span>), but that is mispronounced.

	[<nowiki/>[[145]]/06] ''the people of all ~~'''~~regions (WRDA)~~'''''~~		[<nowiki/>[[145]]/06] the people of all regions (<span class="fryas">WRDA</span>)

	[<nowiki/>[[151]]/02] ''(...) to Mannagarda-~~'''~~waerda~~'''~~ (-~~'''~~shores* WRDA~~'''~~). (~~Mannagarda'''waerda~~ (WRDA)~~'''~~ was spelled ~~‘Mannagarda'''forda’~~ (FORDA)~~'''~~ earlier in this book,** but that is wrong.'' {should be regions?/ *See page [005] and [112].}		[<nowiki/>[[151]]/02] (...) to Mannagarda-waerda (-shores* <span class="fryas">WRDA</span>). (Mannagardawaerda (<span class="fryas">WRDA</span>) was spelled ‘Mannagardaforda’ (<span class="fryas">FORDA</span>) earlier in this book,** but that is wrong. {should be regions?/ *See page [005] and [112].}

	[<nowiki/>[[157]]/23] ''Thereupon, they toured along the ~~'''~~shores* (WRDA)~~'''~~ of Staveren'' {*should be regions?}		[<nowiki/>[[157]]/23] Thereupon, they toured along the shores* (<span class="fryas">WRDA</span>) of Staveren {*should be regions?}

	[<nowiki/>[[196]]/13] ''that young and old ~~'''~~from everywhere (ÛT ALLE WRDUM)~~'''~~ came''		[<nowiki/>[[196]]/13] that young and old from everywhere (<span class="fryas">ÛT ALLE WRDUM</span>) came

	== Discussion ==		== Discussion ==
	See blogpost (nov.'16) [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html fryskednis/2016/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html]		See blogpost (nov.16) [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html fryskednis/2016/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html]

	On the translation forum ([https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno oeralinda.boards/useful-cases-minno]), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: "born at the Linda-shores"		On the translation forum ([https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno oeralinda.boards/useful-cases-minno]), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: "born at the Linda-shores"

	and added this note: [029/15] "WRDA (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for "coast, shore" were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for "land bordering water" ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432 etymonline/shore])"		and added this note: [029/15] "<span class="fryas">WRDA</span> (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for "coast, shore" were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for "land bordering water" ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432 etymonline/shore])"

	Proofreader commented (1) on translation: "Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation."		Proofreader commented (1) on translation: "Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation."

	And (2) on the note: "A “coast” or “coastline” evokes the sight from sea of land stretching out in whatever directions. A “shore” evokes a limited section of coastline, and includes the movement of the tide, perpendicular to the coastline, and usually from the point of view of the land. Both are really only applicable to waters the size of oceans or seas, although “shores” could be used for large rivers, along with “banks” or “beaches” depending on their shape. Any area that is largely influenced by maritime professions might be considered a “seaside” (town, area, house), and as it is the most comprehensive choice, I think it may be closest to the meaning of WRDA, but in the case above, “-shores” is very much in keeping with how people currently denominate a dwelling-place near a promient water feature."		And (2) on the note: "A “coast” or “coastline” evokes the sight from sea of land stretching out in whatever directions. A “shore” evokes a limited section of coastline, and includes the movement of the tide, perpendicular to the coastline, and usually from the point of view of the land. Both are really only applicable to waters the size of oceans or seas, although “shores” could be used for large rivers, along with “banks” or “beaches” depending on their shape. Any area that is largely influenced by maritime professions might be considered a “seaside” (town, area, house), and as it is the most comprehensive choice, I think it may be closest to the meaning of <span class="fryas">WRDA</span>, but in the case above, “-shores” is very much in keeping with how people currently denominate a dwelling-place near a promient water feature."

	My reply to (1): "It is not clear where exactly it was. The original word Lindawrda would be awkward to pronounce (in the mind) of many readers. I have considered Lindawards, but that might be confusing too. Elsewhere in the texts, Linda-woods is used. I guess it will have to be explained in introduction or good foot-note."		My reply to (1): "It is not clear where exactly it was. The original word Lindawrda would be awkward to pronounce (in the mind) of many readers. I have considered Lindawards, but that might be confusing too. Elsewhere in the texts, Linda-woods is used. I guess it will have to be explained in introduction or good foot-note."

	For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for 'regions' after all, without explaining it in a note.		For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for regions after all, without explaining it in a note.

	<u>Bruce:</u> When reading GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA, I think of the English word 'ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections'. Also 'hospital ward'. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA, I actually (mistakenly) saw WRDA as part of the predicate BÀRN ... WRDA. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for 'Chelsworth', which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)		<u>Bruce:</u> When reading <span class="fryas">GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA</span>, I think of the English word ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections. Also hospital ward. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read <span class="fryas">BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA</span>, I actually (mistakenly) saw <span class="fryas">WRDA</span> as part of the predicate <span class="fryas">BÀRN ... WRDA</span>. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for Chelsworth, which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)

	<u>Jan:</u> Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.		<u>Jan:</u> Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.

	Still not sure what to make of LINDA.WRDA: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?		Still not sure what to make of <span class="fryas">LINDA.WRDA</span>: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?

	<u>Bruce:</u> ...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)		<u>Bruce:</u> ...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)

	<u>Jan:</u> After I mailed you, saying I would use 'shores', I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, WRDA is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as 'Linde/Lende', I prefer the original spelling 'Linda' (because of link to book title).		<u>Jan:</u> After I mailed you, saying I would use shores, I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, <span class="fryas">WRDA</span> is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as Linde/Lende, I prefer the original spelling Linda (because of link to book title).

	[[Category:Word Studies]]		[[Category:Word Studies]]

Jan: edits

2023-12-08T11:58:04Z

edits

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:58, 8 December 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
	~~Regions~~ or ~~shores~~?		Plural of region, shore or -worth (Dutch: waard, oord)?

	Fragments (with translations August '22, discussion below):		== Fragments ==
			(with translations August '22, discussion below):

	[<nowiki/>[[005]]/10] ''reeve of ... the '''Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)'''''.		[<nowiki/>[[005]]/10] ''reeve of ... the '''Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)'''''.
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	[<nowiki/>[[196]]/13] ''that young and old '''from everywhere (ÛT ALLE WRDUM)''' came''		[<nowiki/>[[196]]/13] ''that young and old '''from everywhere (ÛT ALLE WRDUM)''' came''

	= = =		== Discussion ==
	See blogpost (nov.'16) [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html fryskednis/2016/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html]		See blogpost (nov.'16) [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html fryskednis/2016/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html]

Line 44:		Line 45:
	For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for 'regions' after all, without explaining it in a note.		For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for 'regions' after all, without explaining it in a note.

			<u>Bruce:</u> When reading GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA, I think of the English word 'ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections'. Also 'hospital ward'. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA, I actually (mistakenly) saw WRDA as part of the predicate BÀRN ... WRDA. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for 'Chelsworth', which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)

			<u>Jan:</u> Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.
	Bruce: When reading GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA, I think of the English word 'ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections'. Also 'hospital ward'. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA, I actually (mistakenly) saw WRDA as part of the predicate BÀRN ... WRDA. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for 'Chelsworth', which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)


	Jan: Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.

	Still not sure what to make of LINDA.WRDA: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?		Still not sure what to make of LINDA.WRDA: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?

			<u>Bruce:</u> ...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)

			<u>Jan:</u> After I mailed you, saying I would use 'shores', I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, WRDA is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as 'Linde/Lende', I prefer the original spelling 'Linda' (because of link to book title).
	~~Bruce: ...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)~~


	Jan: After I mailed you, saying I would use 'shores', I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, WRDA is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as 'Linde/Lende', I prefer the original spelling 'Linda' (because of link to book title).

	[[Category:Word Studies]]		[[Category:Word Studies]]

Jan: /* = */ links and general edits

2023-12-08T10:58:38Z

=: links and general edits

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:58, 8 December 2023
Line 30:		Line 30:

	= = =		= = =
	See blogpost (nov.'16) ~~<nowiki>~~https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html</~~nowiki>~~		See blogpost (nov.'16) [https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html fryskednis/2016/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html]

	On the translation forum (~~<nowiki>~~https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno</~~nowiki>~~), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: "born at the Linda-shores"		On the translation forum ([https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno oeralinda.boards/useful-cases-minno]), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: "born at the Linda-shores"

	and added this note: [029/15] "WRDA (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for "coast, shore" were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for "land bordering water" (~~<nowiki>~~https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432</~~nowiki>~~)"		and added this note: [029/15] "WRDA (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for "coast, shore" were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for "land bordering water" ([https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432 etymonline/shore])"

	Proofreader commented (1) on translation: "Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation."		Proofreader commented (1) on translation: "Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation."
Line 45:		Line 45:


	~~Bruce~~

	When reading GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA, I think of the English word 'ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections'. Also 'hospital ward'. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA, I actually (mistakenly) saw WRDA as part of the predicate BÀRN ... WRDA. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for 'Chelsworth', which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)		Bruce: When reading GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA, I think of the English word 'ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections'. Also 'hospital ward'. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA, I actually (mistakenly) saw WRDA as part of the predicate BÀRN ... WRDA. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for 'Chelsworth', which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)


	Jan		Jan: Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.

	Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.

	Still not sure what to make of LINDA.WRDA: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?		Still not sure what to make of LINDA.WRDA: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?


	~~Bruce~~

	~~...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)~~

			Bruce: ...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)

	~~Jan~~

	After I mailed you, saying I would use 'shores', I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, WRDA is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as 'Linde/Lende', I prefer the original spelling 'Linda' (because of link to book title).		Jan: After I mailed you, saying I would use 'shores', I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, WRDA is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as 'Linde/Lende', I prefer the original spelling 'Linda' (because of link to book title).

	[[Category:Word Studies]]		[[Category:Word Studies]]

Jan: change

2023-04-12T08:41:39Z

change

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:41, 12 April 2023
Line 1:		Line 1:
	Regions or shores?		Regions or shores?

	~~Jan~~

	Fragments (with translations August '22, discussion below):		Fragments (with translations August '22, discussion below):

	~~1c. Names of the Reeves~~ [005/10] ~~GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA.~~ reeve of ... the Linda regions.		[<nowiki/>[[005]]/10] ''reeve of ... the '''Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)'''''.

	~~4c. Useful Precedents~~ [029/15] ~~BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA~~ born at the Linda regions		[<nowiki/>[[029]]/15] ''born at the '''Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)'''''

	~~9b. Jon’s Revenge~~ [066/20] ~~THÁ KÉMON THA LANDWÉRAR UT ALLE WRDA WÉI.~~ defenders of the land came from all over.		[<nowiki/>[[066]]/20] ''defenders of the land came '''from all over (UT ALLE WRDA WÉI)'''''.

	~~12. Adelbrost: Intrigues and Division~~ [087/20] ~~GRÉVETMÁN OVIRA LINDA WRDA.~~ reeve over the Linda regions.		[<nowiki/>[[087]]/20] ''reeve over the '''Linda regions (LINDA WRDA)'''''.

	~~13c. Death of Adela~~ [093/25] ~~TO HULLANDE VSA WRDA IN THIKKE THJUSTERNISE.~~ obscuring our region.		[<nowiki/>[[093]]/25] ''obscuring '''our region (VSA WRDA)'''''.

	~~14a. Fryasland Swamped, ca. 305 BCE~~ [116/05] ~~THA WALDA THÉRA [10] LINDA WRDA~~ The woods of the Linda regions		[<nowiki/>[[116]]/05] ''The woods of the '''Linda regions (LINDA WRDA)'''''

	~~15c. Yesus or Buda of Kashmir~~ [140/20] ~~SÁ SKILUN THÉR IN ALLE WRDA MÀNNISKA VPSTONDA~~ in all regions people will rise		[<nowiki/>[[140]]/20] ''in all '''regions (WRDA)''' people will rise''

	~~16a. Canals and Dykes~~ [143/10] ~~MIN TÁT HETH SKRÉVEN HO THA LINDA.WRDA ÀND THA LJUD.GÁRDNE VRDILGEN SEND. LINDA.HÉM IS JETA WÉI. THA LINDA.WRDA FAR EN DÉL.~~ My father wrote how the Linda regions and the Liudgardens were destroyed. Lindaheim is still lost, the Linda regions partially.		[<nowiki/>[[143]]/10] ''My father wrote how the '''Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)''' and the Liudgardens were destroyed. Lindaheim is still lost, the '''Linda regions (LINDA.WRDA)''' partially.''

	[143/20] ~~THÉR.VMBE IS THÀT ROND.DÉL NW LJUD.WÉRD HÉTEN. THÁ STJÛRAR SEGATH LJV.WRD MEN THAT IS WAN.SPRÉKE~~ Therefore, this surrounding yard is now called Liudwerd. The steersmen say ‘Liuwrd’, but that is mispronounced.		[<nowiki/>[[143]]/20] ''Therefore, this surrounding yard is now called '''Liudwerd (LJUD.WÉRD)'''. The steersmen say '''‘Liuwrd’ (LJV.WRD)''', but that is mispronounced.''

	~~16b. Friso: Alliances~~ [145/06] ~~THA LJUD FON ALLE WRDA~~ the people of all regions		[<nowiki/>[[145]]/06] ''the people of all '''regions (WRDA)'''''

	~~16c. Friso: Praise and Suspicion~~ [151/02] (...) ~~NÉI MANNA.GARDA.WRDA. MANNA.GARDA.WRDA IS FARIN THIT BOK. MANNA.GARDA.FORDA SKRÉVEN. MEN THAT IS MIS DÉN~~ to Mannagarda-waerda (-shores). (~~Mannagardawaerda~~ was spelled ~~‘Mannagardaforda’~~ earlier in this book,* but that is wrong. {should be regions?/ *See page [005] and [112].}		[<nowiki/>[[151]]/02] ''(...) to Mannagarda-'''waerda''' (-'''shores* WRDA'''). (Mannagarda'''waerda (WRDA)''' was spelled ‘Mannagarda'''forda’ (FORDA)''' earlier in this book,** but that is wrong.'' {should be regions?/ *See page [005] and [112].}

	~~16d. Adel and Ifkia~~ [157/23] ~~DÁNÁ TÁGON HJA INOVIR STÁVEREN.S.WRDA~~ Thereupon, they toured along the shores* of Staveren {*should be regions?}		[<nowiki/>[[157]]/23] ''Thereupon, they toured along the '''shores* (WRDA)''' of Staveren'' {*should be regions?}

	~~19a. Askar Prepares for War~~ [196/13] ~~THAT ALD ÀND JONG ÛT ALLE WRDUM WÉI KÉMON~~ that young and old from everywhere came		[<nowiki/>[[196]]/13] ''that young and old '''from everywhere (ÛT ALLE WRDUM)''' came''

	= = =		= = =

Mf: New WRDA word study created

2023-01-12T12:54:40Z

New WRDA word study created

New page

Regions or shores?

Jan

Fragments (with translations August '22, discussion below):

1c. Names of the Reeves [005/10] GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA. reeve of ... the Linda regions.

4c. Useful Precedents [029/15] BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA born at the Linda regions

9b. Jon’s Revenge [066/20] THÁ KÉMON THA LANDWÉRAR UT ALLE WRDA WÉI. defenders of the land came from all over.

12. Adelbrost: Intrigues and Division [087/20] GRÉVETMÁN OVIRA LINDA WRDA. reeve over the Linda regions.

13c. Death of Adela [093/25] TO HULLANDE VSA WRDA IN THIKKE THJUSTERNISE. obscuring our region.

14a. Fryasland Swamped, ca. 305 BCE [116/05] THA WALDA THÉRA [10] LINDA WRDA The woods of the Linda regions

15c. Yesus or Buda of Kashmir [140/20] SÁ SKILUN THÉR IN ALLE WRDA MÀNNISKA VPSTONDA in all regions people will rise

16a. Canals and Dykes [143/10] MIN TÁT HETH SKRÉVEN HO THA LINDA.WRDA ÀND THA LJUD.GÁRDNE VRDILGEN SEND. LINDA.HÉM IS JETA WÉI. THA LINDA.WRDA FAR EN DÉL. My father wrote how the Linda regions and the Liudgardens were destroyed. Lindaheim is still lost, the Linda regions partially.

[143/20] THÉR.VMBE IS THÀT ROND.DÉL NW LJUD.WÉRD HÉTEN. THÁ STJÛRAR SEGATH LJV.WRD MEN THAT IS WAN.SPRÉKE Therefore, this surrounding yard is now called Liudwerd. The steersmen say ‘Liuwrd’, but that is mispronounced.

16b. Friso: Alliances [145/06] THA LJUD FON ALLE WRDA the people of all regions

16c. Friso: Praise and Suspicion [151/02] (...) NÉI MANNA.GARDA.WRDA. MANNA.GARDA.WRDA IS FARIN THIT BOK. MANNA.GARDA.FORDA SKRÉVEN. MEN THAT IS MIS DÉN to Mannagarda-waerda (-shores*). (Mannagardawaerda was spelled ‘Mannagardaforda’ earlier in this book,** but that is wrong. {*should be regions?/ **See page [005] and [112].}

16d. Adel and Ifkia [157/23] DÁNÁ TÁGON HJA INOVIR STÁVEREN.S.WRDA Thereupon, they toured along the shores* of Staveren {*should be regions?}

19a. Askar Prepares for War [196/13] THAT ALD ÀND JONG ÛT ALLE WRDUM WÉI KÉMON that young and old from everywhere came

= = =
See blogpost (nov.'16) <nowiki>https://fryskednis.blogspot.com/2016/11/wrd-oord-ort-ward-waro-ford.html</nowiki>

On the translation forum (<nowiki>https://oeralinda.boards.net/thread/42/029-031-useful-cases-minno</nowiki>), I decided to translate the fragment of 4c. as: "born at the Linda-shores"

and added this note: [029/15] "WRDA (plur.) - Dutch: waard, Old Dutch wertha, Old English waroþ - Old English words for "coast, shore" were strand, waroþ, ofer. Few Indo-European languages have such a single comprehensive word for "land bordering water" (<nowiki>https://www.etymonline.com/word/shore#etymonline_v_23432</nowiki>)"

Proofreader commented (1) on translation: "Do we know where this is, specifically? If not, I’m inclined to put the original in the text for “Linda-shore” and footnote it “Linden-shores” so as to make it easier to locate it based on either the name or its translation."

And (2) on the note: "A “coast” or “coastline” evokes the sight from sea of land stretching out in whatever directions. A “shore” evokes a limited section of coastline, and includes the movement of the tide, perpendicular to the coastline, and usually from the point of view of the land. Both are really only applicable to waters the size of oceans or seas, although “shores” could be used for large rivers, along with “banks” or “beaches” depending on their shape. Any area that is largely influenced by maritime professions might be considered a “seaside” (town, area, house), and as it is the most comprehensive choice, I think it may be closest to the meaning of WRDA, but in the case above, “-shores” is very much in keeping with how people currently denominate a dwelling-place near a promient water feature."

My reply to (1): "It is not clear where exactly it was. The original word Lindawrda would be awkward to pronounce (in the mind) of many readers. I have considered Lindawards, but that might be confusing too. Elsewhere in the texts, Linda-woods is used. I guess it will have to be explained in introduction or good foot-note."

For the published editions of COL thus far, I decided for 'regions' after all, without explaining it in a note.

Bruce

When reading GRÉVETMAN ... OVIR.A LINDA.WRDA, I think of the English word 'ward: A district into which a city or town is divided for the purpose of administration and elections'. Also 'hospital ward'. Yet, in other contexts it can certainly mean shores or other things. E.g. when I first read BÀRN ANDA LINDA.WRDA, I actually (mistakenly) saw WRDA as part of the predicate BÀRN ... WRDA. Fun stuff! To get at least one instance of the English suffix "worth" meaning "area (near a river)", I randomly searched for an invented name: Chelmsworth. I got a hit for 'Chelsworth', which included this: The Saxons called the area Ceorleswyrthe. Recorded in Domesday as "Cerleswrda". :-)

Jan

Fascinating. I should study that Domesday book someday.

Still not sure what to make of LINDA.WRDA: shores of the Linde, Lindawards, Linde region(s), or...?

Bruce

...near the River Linda... or you could Anglicize it: Lindasworth (I jest)

Jan

After I mailed you, saying I would use 'shores', I read your replies again and think your first suggestion Linda-ward may be best. However, WRDA is plural. Would Lindawards, Linda-wards or Linda wards/Wards work? Although (what is left of) the river is now known as 'Linde/Lende', I prefer the original spelling 'Linda' (because of link to book title).

[[Category:Word Studies]]